America’s Founding Fathers Were Liberals (… but were they really?)

America’s Founding Fathers Were Liberals (… but were they really?) http://factmyth.com/factoids/americas-founding-fathers-were-liberals/

Posted 12/30/21

Thank you Thomas DeMichele for addressing this most worthy issue.

Because of my somewhat unique view regarding this matter, I cannot exactly accurately vote here one way or the other. Perhaps elaborating a bit will explain why.

What is the earliest historical writing which uses the words "liberal" and/or "conservative" as referring to political ideologies? Please cite specific references.

Did the American founding fathers ever use the words "liberal" and/or "conservative" as referring to political ideologies? Please cite specific references.

Because I've yet to find any indication of the usage of these words, which is now common, until sometime in the 1900's. For example, Frederic Bastiat's The Law published in 1850 never refers to either "liberal" or "conservative" as political ideologies.

If one is going to make the claim that at the time of America's founding, people considered the words "liberal" and/or "conservative as referring to political ideologies, one ought to be able to cite the usage of such words accordingly.

My view is that the reason why the American founders were at that time thought of as "liberals" is due to the fact that besides proportioning, the word actually refers to one's propensity for change, rather than having to do with any political ideology whatsoever. In contrast, the word "conservative" refers to one's propensity for no change. These words can then be applied to any given specific matter.

To perhaps better illustrate the proper usage of these words in practical application, consider: was Prohibition in the 20's a liberal or conservative event? While one who refers to these words as being political ideologies may call it conservative due to 20th century political science indoctrination, the fact is that among societies/nations throughout all of human history there hardly ever existed any national prohibition against the consumption of alcohol. Thus, Prohibition in the 20's was definitely a major change, and therefore can only accurately be considered to be liberal.

So, I also view the American founders as having *liberal* ideals only due to the fact that they were offering a major change in governance, from a monarchy to a Democratic-Republic — that is, a system of governance which incorporates democratically elected representatives, under a Constitution designed to protect the individual Natural Rights of all.

However, they also had a great many *conservative* ideals. For example, when the British Crown demanded firearm confiscation, they adamantly disagreed... then went to war. Many believe this was the camel's back breaking straw. They had been owning and using firearms and were not planning on giving them up. Therefore, in this area of principle they could certainly not be thought of as anything other than conservative.

My suggestion for everyone is to dispense with using the terms "liberal" and "conservative" because they really are phony terms with regard to political philosophy/ideology. We would be far better off even dispensing with the entire false "left" vs. "right" political paradigm, as it causes only confusion. For example, Hitler and his NAZI party are often called "right wing" by the largely ignorant social media masses, while they were really always a Socialist and therefore "left wing" political party (using the false political paradigm).

It would be far more accurate to equate any point of political agenda or principle with one of two categories: 1. Collectivism (dishonoring individual free will), and 2. Individualism (honoring individual free will). Then perhaps more individuals would better recognize that all such collectivist forms of government (Socialist, Communist, Fascist, etc.) cannot ever serve to maximize peace, prosperity, and liberty the way Individualism can, so long as a society's Civil Law incorporates Natural Law in honoring the individual Natural Rights of all.

Regardless, it's all food for thought.

In liberty,

8-)

bernard baruch carman www.NaturalRightsCoalition.com ∞ ∞ ∞

#1

Carl Milsted, Jr on Aug 26, 2022 2:12 PM

Etymology of the word liberal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism#Etymology_and_definition

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#2

Bernard Baruch Carman on Jan 1, 2023 3:24 PM
in response to comment_10_1

https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=liberal

liberal (adj.) mid-14c., "generous," also "nobly born, noble, free;" from late 14c. as "selfless, magnanimous, admirable;" from early 15c. in a bad sense, "extravagant, unrestrained," from Old French liberal "befitting free people; noble, generous; willing, zealous" (12c.), and directly from Latin liberalis "noble, gracious, munificent, generous," literally "of freedom, pertaining to or befitting a free person," from liber "free, unrestricted, unimpeded; unbridled, unchecked, licentious."

Thus, in the 1300's, the word was never used as referring to a political ideology. "The Law" by Bastiat 1850 never used the term as referring to a political ideology. I've yet to find any record of the founders referring themselves as "liberal" in their political ideology.

By contrast:

https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=conservative

conservative (adj.) late 14c., conservatyf, "tending to preserve or protect, preservative, having the power to keep whole or safe," from Old French conservatif, from Medieval Latin conservativus, from Latin conservatus, past participle of conservare "to keep, preserve, keep intact, guard," from assimilated form of com-, here perhaps an intensive prefix (see com-), + servare "keep watch, maintain" (from PIE root *ser- (1) "to protect").

On one hand 'liberal" means to be generous in proportioning, while "conservative" means to be preservative in proportioning. However, one could be "liberal/conservative" with STATE regulations or with freedom itself, resulting in societies which vastly differ in their degree of Natural Rights violations/usurpations.

Tyranny itself has existed far longer than either of these two words, neither of which were originally used as referring to any political ideology.

Therefore, the use of both "liberal" and "conservative" as referring to a fictitious "left" vs. "right" *political ideology* construct is a very recent one which has obfuscated the truth that the real battle between political ideologies is between the philosophies of Collectivism (dishonoring individual free will, maximizing turmoil, poverty, and tyranny) and Individualism (honoring individual free will, maximizing peace, prosperity, and liberty).

One example of ubiquitous ignorance and confusion caused by the obfuscation of truth by this false "liberal/left" vs. "conservative/right" political paradigm is that many among the masses cite the NAZI movement as being "right wing", while it is factually a Socialist political party which considered as being "left wing".

In order to maximize peace, prosperity, and tyranny in a society, the people must break out of the false political indoctrination by the very STATE which violates and usurps the very Creator-given individual Natural Rights it was sworn to protect by rule of law.

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#3

Bernard Baruch Carman on Sep 6, 2023 4:58 PM

EVERYONE in the world ought to watch this short video.

The Left Wing & Right Wing are Both on the Same Bird Called Collectivism https://redpilluniversity.org/the-left-wing-right-wing-are-both-on-the-same-bird-called-collectivism/

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#4

Scythrop Glowry on Mar 15, 2024 6:48 PM

Actually, the terminology of "Liberals" and "Conservatives" does seem to date back to the 18th century. That does not mean that they were the same political ideologies back then, but they were political ideologies. From Google's ngram viewer:

There are lots of 19th century documents refering to "the Liberals and Tories".

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#5

Scythrop Glowry on Mar 15, 2024 6:59 PM
in response to comment_10_4

It would appear, upon closer inspection, that the usage of the terms "Liberals" and "Conservatives" increased greatly in the 1830s and multiple 1830s documents of this sort have been mistakenly attributed to various times in the 1700s.

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